Stephen Cass: Hi there and welcome to Fixing the Future, an IEEE Spectrum podcast the place we take a look at concrete options to robust issues. I’m your host Stephen Cass, a senior editor at IEEE Spectrum. And earlier than I begin, I simply needed to inform you you could get the newest protection of Spectrum‘s most essential beats, together with AI, local weather change, and robotics, by signing up for one in every of our free newsletters. Simply go to spectrum.ieee.org/newsletters to subscribe.
All of us love our cellular units the place the progress of Moore’s Regulation has meant we’re capable of pack an unlimited quantity of computing energy in one thing that’s sufficiently small that we are able to put on it as jewelery. However their Achilles heel is energy. They eat up battery life requiring frequent battery modifications or charging. One firm that’s hoping to cut back our battery anxiousness is Exeger, which needs to allow self-charging units that convert ambient gentle into power on the go. Right here to speak about its so-called Powerfoyle photo voltaic cell expertise is Exeger’s founder and CEO, Giovanni Fili. Giovanni, welcome to the present.
Giovanni Fili: Thanks.
Cass: So earlier than we get into the main points of the Powerfoyle expertise, was I proper in saying that the Achilles heel of our cellular units is battery life? And if we may scale back or get rid of that downside, how would that really affect the event of cellular and wearable tech past simply not having to recharge as usually?
Fili: Yeah. I imply, for certain, I believe the worldwide widespread downside or ache level is for certain battery anxiousness in several methods, ranging out of your cell phone to your different transportable units, and naturally, even EV like automobiles and all that. So what we’re doing is we’re attempting to get rid of this or scale back or get rid of this battery anxiousness by integrating— seamlessly integrating, I ought to say, a photo voltaic cell. So our photo voltaic cell can convert any gentle power to electrical power. So indoor, out of doors from any angle. We’re not angle dependent. And the photo voltaic cell can take the form. It could actually appear like leather-based, textile, brushed metal, wooden, carbon fiber, virtually something, and may take gentle from all angles as nicely, and will be in several colours. It’s additionally very sturdy. So our thought is to combine this versatile, skinny movie into any machine and permit it to be self-powered, permitting for elevated performance within the machine. Simply take a look at the smartwatches. I imply, the primary one which got here, you can put on them for just a few hours, and also you needed to cost them. They usually packed them with extra performance. You continue to must cost them on daily basis. And you continue to must cost them on daily basis, regardless. However now, they’re full of much more stuff. In order quickly as you get extra power effectivity, you pack them with extra performance. So we’re enabling this type of leap in performance with out compromising design, battery, sustainability, all of that. So yeah, so it’s been a protracted journey since I began working with this 17 years in the past.
Cass: I really needed to ask about that. So how is Exeger positioned to assault this downside? As a result of it’s not such as you’re the primary firm to try to do good cellular charging options for cellular units.
Fili: I can point out there, I believe that the principle factor that differentiates us from all different earlier options is that we now have invented a brand new electrode materials, the anode and the cathode with an identical virtually like battery. So we now have anode, cathode. We have now electrolytes inside. So it is a—
Cass: So only for readers who won’t be acquainted, a battery is principally you might have an anode, which is the optimistic terminal—I hope I didn’t forgot that—cathode, which is a destructive terminal, after which you might have an electrolyte between them within the battery, after which chemical reactions between these three elements, and it may possibly get form of sophisticated, produce an electrical potential between one facet and the opposite. And in a photo voltaic cell, additionally there’s an anode and a cathode and so forth. Have I obtained that proper, my little, temporary sketch?
Fili: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so what we add to that structure is we add one layer of titanium dioxide nanoparticles. Titanium dioxide is the white in white wall paint, toothpaste, sunscreen, all that. And it’s a really secure and considerable materials. And we use that porous layer of titanium nanoparticles. After which we deposit a dye, a coloration, a pigment on this layer. And this dye will be crimson, black, blue, inexperienced, any form of coloration. And the dye will then take in the photons, excite electrons which might be injected into the titanium dioxide layer after which collected by the anode after which carried out out to the cable. And now, we use the electrons to gentle the lamp or a motor or no matter we do with it. After which they flip again to the cathode on the opposite facet and contained in the cell. So the electrons goes the opposite manner and the internal manner. So the plus, you’ll be able to say, go inside ions within the electrolytes. So it’s a regenerative system.
So our innovation is a brand new— I imply, all photo voltaic cells, they’ve electrodes to gather the electrons. When you have silicon wafers or no matter you might have, proper? And you realize that every one these photo voltaic cells that you just’ve seen, they’ve silver traces crossing the floor. The silver traces are there as a result of the conductivity is kind of poor, humorous sufficient, in these supplies. So excessive resistance. So then it’s good to deposit the silver traces there, they usually’re referred to as present collectors. So it’s good to accumulate the present. Our innovation is a brand new electrode materials that has 1,000 instances higher conductivity than different versatile electrode supplies. That enables us as the one firm on the earth to get rid of the silver traces. And we print all our layers as nicely. And as you print in your home, you’ll be able to print a photograph, an apple with a chew in it, you’ll be able to print the identify, you’ll be able to print something you need. We are able to print something we would like, and it’ll even be changing gentle power to electrical power. So a photo voltaic cell.
Cass: So the important thing half is that the colour dye is doing that preliminary work of changing the sunshine. Do completely different colours have an effect on the effectivity? I did see in your website that it is available in all these form of completely different colours, however. And I used to be considering to myself, nicely, is the black one one of the best? Is the crimson one one of the best? Or is it comparatively insensitive to the seen coloration that I see once I take a look at these dyes?
Fili: So that you’re fully proper there. So black would provide the most. And in the event you go to completely different colours, usually you lose like 20, 30 p.c. However luckily sufficient for us, over 50 p.c of the buyer digital market is black merchandise. In order that’s good. So I believe that you just requested me how we’re positioned. I imply, with our completely distinctive integration potentialities, think about this tremendous skinny, versatile movie that works all day, on daily basis from morning to sundown, indoor, out of doors, can appear like leather-based. So we’ve made like a leather-based bag, proper? The leather-based bag is the photo voltaic cell. Your complete bag is the photo voltaic cell. You wouldn’t see it. It simply seems to be like a traditional leather-based bag.
Cass: So if you speak about versatile, you really imply this— so generally when folks speak about versatile electronics, they imply it may be put right into a form, however then you definitely’re not imagined to bend it afterwards. If you’re speaking about versatile electronics, you’re speaking about your entire factor stays versatile and you should use it flexibly as a substitute of simply you’ll be able to conform it as soon as to a form and then you definitely form of go away it alone.
Fili: Right. So we only recently launched a listening to protector with 3M. This nice American firm with greater than 60,000 merchandise internationally. So we now have a worldwide exclusivity contract with them the place they’ve built-in our bendable, versatile photo voltaic movie within the headband. So the scarf is the photo voltaic cell, proper? And the place you beforehand needed to change disposable battery each second week, two batteries each second week, now you by no means want to vary the battery once more. We simply recharge this small rechargeable battery indoor and out of doors, simply continues to cost on a regular basis. They usually have added quite a lot of additional actually cool new performance as nicely. So we’re eliminating the necessity for disposable batteries. We’re saving hundreds of thousands and hundreds of thousands of batteries. We’re saving the tip person, the contractor, the man who makes use of them quite a lot of trouble to purchase this battery, retailer them. And we improve reliability and performance as a result of they are going to at all times be charged. You may belief them that they at all times work. In order that’s the place we’re completely distinctive. The photo voltaic cell is tremendous sturdy. If we will be in an expert listening to protector to make use of on airports, building websites, mines, no matter you employ, factories, oil rig platforms, you are able to do virtually something. So I don’t assume every other photo voltaic cell would be capable of cross these sturdiness checks that we did. It’s loopy.
Cass: So I’ve a query. It form of it’s extra acceptable from my expertise with utility photo voltaic cells and stuff you placed on roofs. However what number of watts per sq. meter are you able to ship, we’ll say, in direct daylight?
Fili: So our focus is on oblique daylight, like shade, suboptimal gentle situations, as a result of that’s the place you’d usually be with these merchandise. However in the event you examine to extra of a silicon, which is what you usually use for calculators and all that stuff. So we’re in all probability round twice as what they ship on this darkish situations, two to a few instances, relying. When you use glass, in the event you use versatile, we’re in all probability 3 times much more, however. So we don’t do full sunshine utility scale photo voltaic. However in the event you take a look at these merchandise just like the listening to protector, we now have performed quite a lot of headphones with Adidas and different enormous manufacturers, we usually recharge like 4 instances what they use. So in the event you take a look at— in the event you go exterior, not in full sunshine, however half sunshine, let’s say 50,000 lux, you’re in all probability speaking at about 13, 14 minutes to cost one hour of listening. So yeah, so we now have offered just a few hundred thousand merchandise over the past three years after we began promoting commercially. And – I don’t know – I haven’t heard anybody who has charged since. I imply, absolutely somebody has, however usually the person by no means must cost them once more, simply cost themself.
Cass: Properly, that’s proper, as a result of for a few years, I went to CES, and I usually would purchase these, or purchase these, little photo voltaic cell chargers. And it was such a disappointing expertise as a result of they actually would solely work in direct daylight. And even then, it could take a really very long time. So I wish to speak a bit bit about, then, to get to that, what had been a few of the largest challenges you needed to overcome on the way in which to growing this tech?
Fili: I imply, that is the fourth industrial photo voltaic cell expertise on the earth after 110 or one thing years of analysis. I imply, the People, the Bell Laboratory despatched the primary silicon cell, I believe it’s in like 1955 or one thing, to house. After which there’s been this fixed improvement and looking for, however to develop a brand new power supply is as near unimaginable as you get, roughly. All people tried and everyone failed. We didn’t know that, fortunately sufficient. So simply the whole– so when I attempt to clarify this, I get this query quite a bit. Think about you discovered one thing actually cool, however there’s nobody to ask. There’s no e book to learn. You simply understand, “Okay, I’ve to make like lots of of 1000’s, perhaps hundreds of thousands of experiments to be taught. And all of them, besides lastly one, they are going to all fail. However that’s okay.” You’ll fail, fail, fail. After which, “Oh, right here’s the answer. One thing that works. Okay. Good.” So we needed to construct on simply fixed failing, nevertheless it’s okay since you’re in a analysis part. So we needed to. I imply, we began off with this new nanomaterials, after which we needed to make elements of those supplies. After which we needed to make photo voltaic cells of the elements, however there have been no machines both. We have now needed to invent all of the machines from scratch as nicely to make these elements and the photo voltaic cells and a few of the non-materials. That was additionally robust. How do you design a machine for one thing that doesn’t exist? It’s fairly troublesome specification to offer to a machine builder. So in the long run, we needed to construct our personal machine constructing capability right here. We’re like 50 guys constructing machines, so.
However now, I imply, immediately we now have over 300 granted patents, one other 90 that might be authorised quickly. We have now an entire machine park that’s proprietary. We are actually constructing the biggest photo voltaic cell manufacturing facility— one of many largest photo voltaic cell factories in Europe. It’s already operational, part one. Now we’re increasing into part two. And we’re fully vertically built-in. We don’t supply something from Russia, China; by no means did. Solely US, Japan, and Europe. We run the factories on 100% renewable power. We have now zero emissions to air and water. And we don’t have any uncommon earth metals, no unusual stuff in it. It’s prefer it all labored out. And now we now have signed, like I mentioned, international exclusivity take care of 3M. We have now a worldwide exclusivity take care of the biggest firm on the earth on pc peripherals, like mouse, keyboard, that stuff. They will solely work with us for years. We have now signed one of many giant, the massive fives, the People, the large CE firm. Can’t inform you but the identify. We have now a globally unique deal for digital shelf labels, the small value tags within the shops. So we now have a worldwide resolution with Imaginative and prescient Group, that’s the biggest. They’ve 50 p.c of the world market as nicely. They usually have Walmart, IKEA, Goal, all these enormous corporations. So now it’s occurring. So we’re rolling out, beginning to deploy huge volumes later this yr.
Cass:So I’ll speak a bit bit about that industrial expertise since you talked about you needed to create verticals. I imply, in Spectrum, we do cowl different startups which have had these— they’re form of ranging from scratch. They usually develop a expertise, and it’s an amazing demo expertise. However then it comes that time the place you’re attempting to combine in as a provider or as a expertise companion with a big industrial entity, which has very particular concepts and the way issues are to be manufactured and delivered and so forth. So are you able to speak a bit bit about what it was like adapting to those companions like 3M and what modifications you needed to make and what stuff you discovered in that course of the place you go from, “Okay, we now have an amazing product and we may make our personal small merchandise, however we wish to now join in as a part of this bigger provide chain.”
Fili: It’s an excellent query and it’s extraordinarily robust. It’s a troublesome journey, proper? Wish to your level, these are the biggest corporations on the earth. They’ve their manner. And one of many first actually robust classes that we discovered was that one manufacturing facility wasn’t sufficient. We needed to construct two factories to have redundancy in manufacturing. As a result of single supply is unhealthy. Single supply, single manufacturing facility, that’s actually unhealthy. So we needed to construct two factories and we needed to present them we had been prepared, keen and capable of be a provider to them. As a result of one factor is the product, proper? However the second factor is, are you worthy provider? And which means how a lot cash you might have within the financial institution. Are you going to be right here in two, three, 4 years? What’s your ISO certifications like? REACH, RoHS, Prop 65. What’s your LCA? What’s your view on this? Blah, blah, blah. Do you might have skilled provide chain? Did you do audits in your suppliers? However now, I imply, we’ve had audits right here by 5 of the biggest corporations on the earth. We’ve all handed them. And so then you definitely qualify as a worthy provider. Then comes your product integration work, such as you talked about. And I believe it’s lots about— I imply, that’s our primary function. The principle distinctive promoting level with Exeger is that we are able to combine into different folks’s merchandise. As a result of if you develop this type of loopy technology– “Okay, so that is photo voltaic cell. Wow. Okay.” And it may possibly appear like something. And it really works on a regular basis. And all the opposite stuff is sustainable and all that. Which product do you go for? So I requested myself—I’m an entrepreneur for the reason that age of 15. I’ve began quite a few corporations. I misplaced a lot cash. I can’t consider it. And managed to earn a bit bit extra. However I spotted, “Okay, how do you choose? The place do you begin? Which product?”
Okay, so I sat down. I used to be like, “When does it promote nicely? When do you see market success?” When one thing is essential. When one thing is essential, it’s going to work. It’s not one of the best tech. It must be essential sufficient. After which, you want distribution and scale and all that. Okay, how have you learnt if one thing is essential? You may’t. Okay. What in the event you take one thing that’s already is— I imply, one thing new, you’ll be able to’t know if it’s going to work. But when we are able to combine into one thing that’s already promoting within the billions of items per yr, like headphones— I believe this yr, one billion headphones are going to be offered or one thing. Okay, apparently, clearly that’s essential for folks. Okay, let’s develop expertise that may be built-in into one thing that’s already essential and permit it to remain, maintain all the good things, the design, the burden, the thickness, all of that, even enhance the LCA higher for the surroundings. And it’s self-powered. And it’ll permit the person to take part and assist a bit bit to a greater world, proper? With no cost cable, no charging within the wall, much less batteries and all that. So our technique was to develop such a powerful expertise in order that we may combine into these corporations/companions merchandise.
Cass: So I assume the query there may be— so that you come to an organization, the corporate has its personal inside improvement engineers. It’s obtained its personal folks arising with product concepts and so forth. How do you evangelize inside an organization to say, “Look, you get within the door, you present your demo,” to say, product supervisor who’s considering of latest product traces, “You guys ought to take into consideration making merchandise with our expertise.” How do you evangelize that they assume, “Okay, yeah, I’m going to spend the following six months of my life betting on these headphones, on this expertise that I didn’t invent that I’m form of trusting.” How do you get that inside buy-in with the interior engineers and the interior product builders and product managers?
Fili: That’s the Holy Grail, proper? It’s very, very, very troublesome. Takes quite a lot of time. It’s very costly. And the purpose, I believe you’re touching a bit bit if you’re asking me now, as a result of they don’t have a man ready to purchase or a division or division ready to purchase this versatile indoor photo voltaic cell that may appear like leather-based. They don’t have anybody. Who’s going to purchase? Who’s the choice maker? There may be not one. There’s a bunch, proper? As a result of this can have an effect on the battery folks. It will have an effect on the antenna folks. It will have an effect on the branding folks. It would have an effect on the mechanic folks, and so on., and so on., and so on. So there’s so many individuals that may say no. Nobody can say sure alone. All of them can say no alone. Any one in every of them can block the challenge, however to proceed, all of them must say sure. So it’s a really, very robust equation. In order that’s why after we realized this— this was one other huge studying that we had that we couldn’t go along with the gross sales man. We couldn’t go along with two gross sales guys. We needed to go along with a complete workforce. So we wanted to convey our design man, our branding particular person, our mechanics particular person, our software program engineer. We needed to go like enormous groups to have the ability to reply all of the questions and mitigate and clarify.
So we needed to go each high down and clarify to the pinnacle of product or head of sustainability, “Okay, when you have 100 million merchandise out in 5 years they usually’re going to be utilizing 50 batteries per yr, that’s 5 billion batteries per yr. That’s not good, proper? What if we are able to get rid of all these batteries? That’s good for sustainability.” “Okay. Good.” “That’s additionally good for complete value. We are able to decrease complete value of possession.” “Okay, that’s additionally good.” “And you may promote this and this and this fashion. And by the way in which, right here’s a story we give you. We have now additionally made some belongings, films, footage, texts. That is how different folks speak about this.” Nevertheless it’s a really, very robust begin. How do you get the primary huge identify in? And massive corporations, they’ve lots to threat, lots to lose as nicely. So my recommendation can be to begin smaller. I imply, we began primarily on account of COVID, to be sincere. As a result of Sweden stayed open throughout COVID, which was nice. We lived our lives virtually like regular. However we couldn’t work with any worldwide corporations as a result of they had been all closed or nobody went to the workplace. So we needed to flip to Swedish corporations, and we developed just a few merchandise throughout COVID. We launched like 4 or 5 merchandise in the marketplace with smaller Swedish corporations, and we launched a lot. After which we may simply ship these headphones to the big corporations and inform them, “You already know what? Right here’s a headphone. Use it for just a few months. We’ll name you later.” After which they name us that, “You already know what? We have now used them for 3 months. Nobody has charged. That is sick. It really works.” We’re like, “Yeah, we all know.” After which that simply made it a lot simpler. And now anybody who needs to make a take care of us, they will simply purchase these merchandise wherever on-line or in-store throughout the entire world and check out them for themselves.
And we ship them additionally samples. They will purchase, they will order from our web site, like improvement kits. We have now software program, we now have partnered up with Qualcomm, early semiconductor. All the massive electronics corporations, we’re now certified companions with them. So all of the electronics is highly effective already. So now it’s very simple now to construct prototypes if you wish to check one thing. We have now places of work internationally. So now it’s a lot simpler. However my recommendation to anybody who would wish to begin with that is try to get just a few prospects in. The essential factor is that additionally they care in regards to the challenge. If we go to one in every of these giant corporations, 3M, they’ve 60,000 merchandise. If they’ve 60,001, yeah. However for us, it’s like the challenge. And we now have managed to land it in a manner. So it’s additionally essential for them now as a result of it simply touches so a lot of their essential areas that they work with, so.
Cass: So by way of future instructions for the expertise, do you might have a improvement pathway? What sort of future milestones are you hoping to hit?
Fili: For certain. So for the time being, we’re specializing in shopper electronics market, IoT, sensible residence. So I believe the following huge factor would be the sensible office the place you see enormous building websites and different areas the place we join the employees, something from the sensible helmet. You get hit in your head, how arduous was it? I imply, why can’t we inform you that? That’s simply ridiculous. There’s all these sensors already out there. Somebody simply must energy the helmet. Location providers. Is the correct particular person in the correct place with the right coaching or not? On the development facet, do you might have the coaching to work with dynamite, for instance, or heavy lifts or completely different stuff? So you’ll be able to add the geofencing in several websites. You may add well being information, digital well being monitoring, pulse, respiration, temperature, completely different stuff. Compliance, in fact. Are you following all the foundations? Are you sporting your helmet? Is the helmet buttoned? Are you sporting the right different gear, no matter it’s? In any other case, you’ll be able to’t begin your engine, or you’ll be able to’t go into this website, or you’ll be able to’t no matter. I believe that’s going to enormously enhance the proactive security and well being lots and improve earnings for employers lots too on the identical time. In just a few years, I believe we’re going to see the American unions are going to be our greatest gross sales power. As a result of after they see the greatness of this entire system, they’re going to demand it in all tenders, all largest tasks. They’re going to say, “Hey, we wish to have the linked employee security stuff right here.” As a result of you’ll be able to simply stream– in the event you’re working, you’ll be able to stream music, speak to your colleagues, get pleasure from linked security with out invading the privateness, understanding that you just’re good. When you fall over, in the event you faint, in the event you get a coronary heart assault, no matter, in just a few seconds, the correct folks will know and they’ll take their acceptable actions. It’s simply actually, actually cool, these things.
Cass: Properly, it’ll be attention-grabbing to see how that seems. However I’m afraid that’s all we now have time for immediately, though that is fascinating. However immediately, so Giovanni, I wish to thanks very a lot for approaching the present.
Fili: Thanks a lot for having me.
Cass: So immediately we had been speaking with Giovanni Fili, who’s Exeger’s founder and CEO, about their new versatile powerfoyle photo voltaic cell expertise. For IEEE Spectrum‘s Fixing the Future, I’m Stephen Cass, and I hope you’ll be part of me subsequent time.
